Arkansas basketball great Scotty Thurman joins Richard Davenport this episode to look back at Scotty's recruitment experience and the late-night call from Coach Nolan Richardson that led to his commitment to the Razorbacks.
Richard Davenport:: Welcome to the Recruiting Guy podcast, this is Richard Davenport of the Arkansas Democrat-Gazette and wholehogsports.com, excited about having Scotty Thurman on today's podcast. This is going to be an interesting ride because we're going to go down through the years of, oh not the years, but a few years of his recruiting process. Obviously things have changed tremendously since Scotty was recruited by coach Nolan Richardson and obviously went on and had a great career at Arkansas. Now he's at Little Rock Parkview changing lives there, on and off the court. And the conversation that led to his commitment is gold and we're gonna get to that later. But first we're going to talk about some other things. But welcome Scotty. Scotty thanks so much for joining us, buddy.
Scotty Thurman: Oh man, thanks for having me, man. I'm excited about it.
Richard Davenport: Things have obviously changed a little bit. You've been through the recruiting process back in the early 90s or, I don't know when exactly when it started. Because back then I wouldn't think it was anything like it is today, where even seventh and eighth graders are getting offers, but still I would imagine it was pretty tense. When did you start getting interest, and those first offers? At what time in your high school career?
Scotty Thurman: Well man, it's funny that you mentioned the offers. You know, back then everything was, you know, coaches came and watched you play either high school or AAU. Most times AAU, because AAU was the biggest deal then. There wasn't so many travel teams, there wasn't, you know, Under Armour didn't have their own league, Nike didn't have their own league, it was all part of the Amateur Athletic Union. I mean, that's where you were seen. And back when I was playing ,my AAU days, you know, the games were held in Jonesboro, Arkansas. So it was there that, when I was in the 10th grade — and I was actually a 15-year-old playing 16s — and we went down to Jonesboro to play and I saw coach Scott Edgar sitting courtside and kinda following me around. And at that time I didn't really know what that meant. You know, I was just competing and playing games and having fun just being a kid. And then the more and more I saw him the more and more I started realizing, like he's following me around. And, I mean, there were other coaches there but he was the only coach who I was starting to see at pretty much every game that I had. And then from there coach Edgar went on and took the job at, I think, at that time was Murray State. And then coach Anderson took over the recruitment from there and started watching me play AAU and came to watch me play a couple times at high school. And at that point, you know, that's when I kind of knew Arkansas was serious. But in terms of like, offers you know, back then it was all phone calls. When they could call you, they'd call you and talk to you and share about their program and you know, let them know that there was an interest. It really was never really an explanation in terms of "Hey, we're offering this scholarship." It was more "Hey, would you be interested in coming to play at Arkansas? And if so, we'd love to have you." And that was kind of it. You know, I had that conversation with coach Anderson. We continued to develop the relationship there in my 11th and 12th grade year and then coach Richardson kind of picked it up from there and kind of increased the intensity in terms of the recruitment process.
Richard Davenport: How many, I mean, who was your first offer? Or first time that someone alluded to wanting you to come to their program?
Scotty Thurman: The first phone call that I actually remember getting was from Tulane. And that was, that's back when Perry Clark was the coach. This was right after they'd had the shaving points scandal and you know Perry Smith, I mean Perry Clark was the coach. Julian Smith was the assistant at the time and you know, they were both telling me you know, they felt like I could come there and have a big impact. And then soon after that LSU and Dale Brown, I think, was the next call and then it was the University of New Orleans, if I'm not mistaken, that started calling. Then after that it just started to happen. There were, you know, bigger schools. Wimp Sanderson from Alabama, Georgia — that's back when Hugh Druham was the head coach — and it just kind of went on so on and so forth from there, where schools started calling. Pittsburgh, you know, which wound up being in my top five, also really started to call me a lot. Back then the assistant coach was John Sarandrea, and the head coach was Paul Evans and I remember those conversations pretty vividly. As well as Billy Tubbs from Oklahoma
Richard Davenport: So, do you remember approximately how many schools you felt like that you had an offer from?
Scotty Thurman: Probably 20 or so. I mean, you know, back then also home visits were really big and you know, when you set up home visits and coaches came to your home that's really when you knew that they were really serious about you. And you know, everybody was getting a phone call, everybody was getting the mail. But you know, when they set up times to come and see you and sit down and visit you and your family, that's when you knew that they were serious. So I would say probably around 20 schools, and it probably would have been more but, you know, I grew up in a house where I had a dad that was pretty old school. He didn't believe in wasting people's time and resources. You know, he felt that if you were serious about someone and you wanted to listen then you should. But if it was just an infatuation type of deal where you were just caught up in the publicity of it or the neighbor seeing a head coach pull up then he wouldn't allow me to continue to do that. That's one of the reasons why I ended up narrowing it down pretty quickly and getting it over.
Richard Davenport: Okay, well do you remember that first conversation with coach Richardson?
Scotty Thurman: Yeah, I do. I do. You know, the first conversation was he, you know, obviously had a great team at the time with Todd Day, Lee Mayberry, Oliver Miller and those guys. And the first conversation he had with me was, you know what style of play that I like to play? You know, was I a guy who, you know, wanted to play positionless basketball, which now it seems a term that everyone's using. But you know, coach was really big on if you were a point guard, that was fine, but what happened if you had to play off the ball? If you were a big who was a post player you know, how would you act if plays weren't being drawn up for you but someone else and maybe you were the second option? Different things like that. So he really was the first coach that kind of made me start thinking outside the box in terms of being able to play multiple positions and being seen as more than just a one dimensional guy. And understanding you know, how to play the game the way he likes to play the game and how he approached the game. And I just remember his energy and his attitude, his confidence more than anything. he's very confident in what he brought to the table and very confident in his program and that's really what stuck out to me most
Richard Davenport: Was it kind of intimidating, at first, talking to some of these coaches and especially coach Richardson, you know, being such a young guy? I would imagine that- I can't imagine that.
Scotty Thurman: Well, I think the only thing that saved me from probably being intimidated was you know, my father was a pretty big man — 6’-7’’, about 245 — so I was kind of used to being you know, scorned at times by someone of his size. And then having that deep voice that my father had was kind of the same. So I wouldn't say I was afraid. I was probably more surprised and shocked of it happening because you know where I'm from, not a lot of people get the opportunity to go on and play at such high level institutions. We did have some guys most of them were football players, but there weren't a ton of basketball players at the time in North Louisiana that were having an opportunity to go and play college ball.
Richard Davenport: What was that in-home with coach Richardson like?
Scotty Thurman: Yeah, I was funny because he came in and I think at the time he came in my father — who worked seven days on seven days off — was not there. So it was just myself, my mom and my high school coach and he was just really really comical about the way he was going to require me to have to work. He started talking about the practices at 6 a.m. and you know, I was kind of looking at him like, you know, this guy's crazy. But he was really, you know, serious in terms of his approach and the one thing that I liked that stood out more than anything was he had already kind of visualized how he was going to use me. Everybody talked about their program and everybody talked about, you know, the good the bad, you know — none of the ugly, obviously, in recruiting. But you know, he was the first person who kind of told me how he saw me fitting, in terms of the style of play — the forty minutes of hell style — and how he saw me being utilized, and that was a big deal for me, just understanding: Okay, this is what he sees out of me and what he's expecting. And knowing that I was going to be a young freshman, I think he was really probably the first high level coach that told me that, you know, my age didn't matter. Because at that time, my AAU coaches and even some of my high school coaches and teachers thought that maybe redshirting or possibly going to a prep school would be a good idea due to the fact that I was going to graduate at 17. And he just kind of killed that right off the bat, and was just like: Look, I'm not recruiting you to come sit. I'm not recruiting you for you to come and redshirt. And if that has to happen, though, we'll talk about that at that time. But I'm recruiting you for you to come in and have the opportunity to play right away. And that was something I really respected.
Richard Davenport: What did your mom think of him after the in-home?
Scotty Thurman: Oh, she was really excited about it. Really, my aunt who lived next door, you know, she had a crush on coach Richardson if you could believe that. So she often bragged about how he looked and how he dressed and the way he talked and walked and how he got out of the car, how he got back in the car. So, my mom spent most of the time laughing when coach left because my aunt came over immediately following and was like, "hey, that's a handsome man, I really liked that man.” And so we just all laughed and we never really even talked about what he spoke about at the in-home. It was more about what he had on. You know, he wore the boots and the flashy suit. And I think that just really caught my mother off guard
Richard Davenport: Now, who were your top five schools again?
Scotty Thurman: My top five schools were Arkansas, Oklahoma, Pittsburgh, Stanford and Texas.
Richard Davenport: At the time, if somebody like myself would call and talk to you, you'd say — most likely, I have no idea. Maybe, maybe you wouldn't — but so many times a kid gives a top five, you say "is there a leader?" "Oh no, everybody's the same.” What, in your mind, who was leading for you?
Scotty Thurman: In my mind, I really felt like Oklahoma and Arkansas, and even Texas were my three favorites. I mean, I really liked Stanford, but I knew in my heart that I wanted my parents to be able to see me play, and I just felt like going that far from home was not going to give them the opportunity to do so. And that was probably the only reason that I ruled them out. I mean, at the time coach Mike Montgomery was the head coach. He was a nice guy, he shared a lot of good things with me and you know, I really felt like I could have played for him. But I just didn't see myself going that far from home. Oklahoma, I liked the style of play, you know, I really liked coach Tubbs and liked the proximity to my parents and then Arkansas was the same and Texas was the same. The thing that ruled Texas out was being in the Southwest Conference. I really didn't feel like basketball was getting the notoriety that it deserved, even though Arkansas you know, had a great team, a lot of success and a lot of, you know, publicity and notoriety. But I just still felt like it was a football conference, especially with Arkansas having moved out, you know, once I became a senior, my senior year when they went to the SEC. So I didn't see myself, you know, growing up in Louisiana, where it's really a football state, so to speak, I didn't want to continue that. I wanted to go somewhere and have the opportunity where I felt like basketball was, if not, the number one sport, it was at least viewed as one of the top sports at the school. Hence, Oklahoma. At the time, you know, they'd had success, Wayman Tisdale, and that group, Mookie Blaylock and all those guys. But you know, there were some things that happened on the visit that really kind of turned me away you know from them and then that left Arkansas and in the conversation that I wound up having with coach Richardson on the night that I did commit
Richard Davenport: Did you take officials to all those schools? The top five?
Scotty Thurman: No, I just took three. I visited Arkansas on a non-football weekend. That was the weekend that they were playing Miami here in Little Rock. I think that's when the receiver Copeland had, you know, had a huge game against us.
Richard Davenport: That was a good thing huh?
Scotty Thurman: Yeah, well you know one of the reasons I did that was because everybody you know — talking about negative recruiting — you know, everybody was telling myself, my family and all my friends that you know, Arkansas, Fayetteville was not, you know, the place for me and it was so far from home and all these negative things. And one of the things I give my dad credit for, was he told me, he said, "hey this is how you circumvent that," he said "if you really have that question in your mind, how about you take a visit when there's nothing going on? And that way you see if it's a place that you could be when there's no basketball season, no football season no rah rah of the fans and it's just regular life." And that was probably the best advice he gave me in terms of, you know, visiting schools. So when I took the visit there it reminded me of my own town, small town college town. Not a ton to do but you know, really just geared around the university and its athletic program. So I just kind of felt like, you know, that was a good option. I took a visit to Pitt and it was so cold that I knew getting off the plane. They had a huge game against Penn State. It was packed and, you know, I was like man this is a lot of people — I think it was like 100,000 people — so I was kind of looking around in shock but at the same time I was freezing my butt off. So I'm thinking man there's no way I'm gonna make this, like this is not gonna work. And then when I took my visit OU you know the craziest thing happened. I had a guy that was my host, you know, he wound up leaving me at a party and disappeared. And there was supposed to be two hosts and the second guy got arrested. So I wound up catching a ride back to the hotel with someone I didn't even really know, but just trying to get back. Because, you know, there was no Uber back then and people weren't calling cabs as much as you know, they were maybe in New York. But not in Norman, Oklahoma. And I got back to the hotel I knew immediately when I got back to the hotel and I remember it like it was yesterday. I was watching the Florida State, LSU football game on TV. Amp Lee was having a great game. It was storming and raining and they were still playing because there wasn't lightning. It was one of the messiest games I'd ever watched. And I watched that game knowing the whole time like, man, this will be my last time in Norman.
Richard Davenport: Unofficial visits are very big now. Did you make very many out officials, or any?
Scotty Thurman: I took several unofficials, but really to the same schools. I mean, I went to LSU several times. I went to La. Tech because it was there locally. I went to Louisiana, Monroe which was just right down the street. But those were the only three unofficals that I took.
Richard Davenport: Okay, let's get to the call of coach Richardson the night that you committed, when was it and just describe it, because it's a classic story.
Scotty Thurman: Well, it was the night that I returned back from my visit to Pittsburgh, and it was, you know, it was so cold that when I got home, I mean, literally, I had to take a hot shower for a long period of time just to kind of get my body temperature back to normal. Because I had never really been that cold before. And back then, you know, there wasn't really cellphones for youngsters and I had my own phone in my room, which I originally had shared with my two older brothers who are now out of the house. So I get out of the shower, and I'm tired, I got to get ready to go to school the next day. I think my mom was, you know, fixing me something to eat. And lo and behold, my phone rings. And it's like 11:30 or something. And I'm looking at it like man who's this calling me? So I answered, and it's coach Richardson. And he's like, "Hey, Scotty, what's going on?" I'm like, hey, what's up, coach? "Hey, what are you up to?" I'm like, well, I just got back from Pittsburgh, and I'm trying to get ready, you know, for school tomorrow. He said, "You just came back from another visit?" And I was like, yes, sir. He said, "Where'd you come from?" And I was like Pittsburgh. He said, "Pitt?" He's like, "you want to go to Big East and walk the ball up the floor?" So I'm like, coach I mean, I'm just considering. "But I'm just asking, you what to walk the ball up the floor?" I was like, no, not really. He was like, "well, that's not going to Pitt, then." He said, "what other schools are you considering?" I said, Texas, he said, "Texas? Oh, sweet Tommy P." He said, "well you know Texas has never beat me in anything." So I'm sitting there, I'm like, yeah coach, I watched the games. I saw you guys beat Texas a couple of times. He said, "Where else you thinking about going?" I said Oklahoma, you know, coach Billy Tubbs. He said, "Oh, Tubby. Tubby's just trying to duplicate what I do. He's trying to play like me." So I'm like okay, coach. And in my mind I'm thinking like, Is he gonna let me get off the phone? So finally he's like, "So son, what are you gonna do?" And I was like, coach, I'm still thinking about it. He's like, "Well I need to know. I want to know if you're coming to play for me or not." And so finally I just said, you know, coach, I'm coming to Arkansas. And I got off the phone and I was just so happy to go to sleep. I woke up the next morning. I told my mom I said, “Hey, I committed to Arkansas last night.” And she was excited. she was like, if that's where you want to go then that's where you should go. My dad was still at work. So we call my dad and told him and he's like, “hey, if that's where you want to go, that's where you should go.” And he's like, “one thing I just need to talk to the coach.” So, we got him on the phone with coach Richardson and they talked and he kind of gave the stamp of approval that it was okay for me to go ahead and commit there and the rest was history. I mean, I think I committed like a week before the signing period, if I'm not mistaken. Or it may have been crossed. Because it was my birthday weekend that I went to Pitt and when I came back on that Monday, I think the signing day was gonna start like that Wednesday or Thursday or something like that. And I wound up signing and all the rest was history.
Richard Davenport: How did the word get out about you committing to Arkansas?
Scotty Thurman: Well back then we did it in my principal's office. We signed and we had some local news stations that were there and they came in and watched me sign. But it wasn't like, you know, the picking of the caps and obviously there was no social media, any of those types of things. It was just more about the local media and then from there I guess the national media whoever would, you know, with coverage or had affiliates. You know, they kind of took it and ran with it.
Richard Davenport: Obviously the national championship game is a highlight, I mean, that's a no brainer. But thinking back on your careers and coach Richardson some of the things that still stays with you today about coach Richardson.
Scotty Thurman: Well the rising early in the morning and getting prepared, you know, to move on with your day and be productive. That stuck with me. The working hard, trying to outwork everyone in everything that you do, you know, that's always stuck with me. But more about the teamwork and communication it takes to be able to perform at a high level. I think I've lived that pretty much every day of my life, not just with the guys that I coach or mentor but you know, just in family life, just with my coworkers and peers and everybody. I think that's the biggest thing I learned is how to be unselfish. You know, so many teenagers nowadays, they don't really understand what it's like to give up yourself. And that's the one thing that I learned from him is how do you give up yourself and be willing to sacrifice for the betterment of the team or the business or whatever it is that you're a part of, in order to make it successful.
Richard Davenport: What was the biggest chew-out from coach Richardson that you had?
Scotty Thurman: The biggest chew-out I had. Oh, man, well there was one time — and I mean, it was me but it was really the team — but there was one time where we had came back from Honolulu when we played in the Rainbow Classic and we beat, I think it was Oklahoma in the championship, if I'm not mistaken. When they had Ryan Minor and that group. And we won the game, and when we flew back to get back to Fayetteville there were a couple of days before our first conference game which was at Ole Miss. And we get back. And you know, Corey was the captain. I was never a captain, but Corey was a captain. And Corey came to me and was like, “Hey, man, I think the guys are tired.” You know, “we need to talk to the coach and see if he's willing to give us a day off.” Because we were scheduled to practice the next day. So I was like, okay, he's like, “you gonna talk to him?” And I'm looking like, well, I thought it was all of us. And he said, “Well, man, everybody wants you to do it.” So I said, okay, I'll talk to him. So meanwhile, as we're having this conversation, coach Richardson's in the airport, because we had a long layover, we were delayed in Dallas, if I'm not mistaken. And coach was on the floor of the airport, I mean, he was snoring like a bear. I mean, he was snoring. So I'm like, of course I'm not gonna wake him up. I'm gonna wait until he gets up and gets his bearings about him before I had a conversation with him. So finally wakes up, he gets him some coffee, we're getting ready to make our connection, and he's kind of looking at me, like, I know, you got something you want to say, what's going on? So I said, coach, I said, I've been talking to the guys. And I said, you know, we were wondering if we could maybe do some kind of trade-off — because I knew he wasn't going to go for me just telling him to give us off. I said, we were wondering if we could maybe get a day off and then we'll make it up with two days, two in a day. You know, go one day of two-a-days. And he said, “Okay, I like it, I like that idea.” He said, “that's what you guys want to do.” He said, “you talked to everybody about it?” I said yeah, I talked to them, they told me to talk to you. He said, “Okay, if that's what everybody wants to do, that's fine.” I said, okay. So he said, we're gonna go with six in the morning. I think it was getting ready to be Monday or Tuesday, so we were going to go at six in the morning, which would have been the next day. So I'm like, okay. Little did I know that my teammates actually had a house party planned. So they have a house party, but they forgot that when they shared the information with the house party, Nolan Richardson III finds out about the party. So he finds out about the party, nothing happens, okay? We go. Play the game at Ole Miss. We lose the game. They rush the court on us, we're No. 1 in the country. The next day, when we get back to Fayetteville, we had a 6 a.m. workout. And that's the first time that I've seen coach kind of- we were all shooting around getting ready to practice, and he said, “Hey, put the balls up.” He didn't say it that nicely. But he said, “Put the balls up”. So everybody's putting the balls up. And some guys were moving a little slower than what he wanted. And he finally just kind of erupted, was like “I said, put my ... balls up.” So we put the balls up. He gets us on the baseline. And he said, “This is what we're gonna do. You guys want to party, we're getting ready to have a party.” So he started putting time on the clock, and we start sprints, suicides, down-and-backs. I mean everything. And then finally, Elmer Martin, who was kind of a elder statesman on the team says, “Wait a minute,coach, we need to talk.” And when he said that coach jumped up and got in his face and said, “what is it we need to talk about?” And now all the guys are kind of looking, coach is sweating, and we're all dog tired, and we're thinking, oh, man, we're getting the rest. And finally he said, “who all went to the party?” So guys started raising their hands. And then he looked at me he was like, “did you know about the party when you were talking to me?” I said, no, sir. “Are you being honest with me?” Yes, sir. He got up to my face, nose to nose. “I asked you, were you being honest with me?” I said, yes, sir. I'm being honest. I didn't know. So he said, “what about you, Corliss? Did you go to the party?” And Corliss didn't go, and Corliss said, “no sir, I didn't go.” He said, “Well, you should have went. Back on the line.” And we got back on the line and ran some more. And then finally, he called us in and he just talked to us about, you know, being misleading or not being above board with him. And he was like, it'll never happen again. Now he doesn't trust us to have to come talk to him about getting days off now he's gonna dictate, he and the trainer alone, he and Dave England. And that was like, we never wanted to do that again, and have that problem again. Because that was the most I'd ever ran for coach, and mind you we read quite a bit. But on that particular day, I thought that was my last day as a Razorback.
Richard Davenport: Scotty, when you were talking that whole time, Nick and I were just looking at one another and just kind of laughing, because it's such great stuff. Great, great stories. And I know the fans are gonna love hearing this. And I really appreciate you taking the time to talk to me because I said I would do 15-20 minutes, but I think we did about 30. But we could have done another 30, and I appreciate you.
Scotty Thurman: Oh, it's no problem, man. Any time.
Richard Davenport: All right, buddy, we'll talk soon. And that's it for this podcast. Thanks again to Scotty Thurman, and we'll see you next time. This is Richard Davenport.